Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

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AeroDillo MkII
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Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

Post by AeroDillo MkII » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:06 am

From the Bureau of Absurdities and Indoctrination:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/texas ... rs-heroic/
"The concept of defenders of the Alamo being heroic is engrained in the history of this state—and in the psyche of most Texans. The Alamo has been compared to the ancient Battle of Thermopylae, in which an outnumbered Greek army fended off a much larger Persian army for several days before being annihilated. But a committee streamlining the state’s history curriculum standards has removed the word “heroic” from a proposed revision of the curriculum because it is “a value-charged word.”
I would be interested in the opinions of the locals here for some out of state perspective.

For me, I lack sufficient middle fingers to throw at Austin for harboring this kind of seditious idiocy.

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Blackthorn
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Re: Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

Post by Blackthorn » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Yes, they should. But I"m biased. I had an ancestor there for that fight.
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything….Albert Einstein

RetroRebel
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Re: Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

Post by RetroRebel » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 pm

The issue of the Alamo is a complicated one for me as a Texan. Yes, the men defending the Alamo were fully committed to their cause and died fighting for what they believe. In my opinion, their actions were certainly heroic. However, the myth of the Alamo has certainly taken on a life of its own and it is very hard to get away from the legend and tall tales to get to the truth of history. While much has been debated back and forth over the Texas Revolution and its motivations, history and such, suffice it to say that much like anything else, the story of the Alamo is a grey and murky matter and that we should be wary of casting praise or judgement lightly. To me, history is a fickle mistress and easily twisted to fit agendas and I think in education at least, we should try to remain as non-partisan as possible and stick to the concrete facts.

However, it's a greater shame that they seem to want to remove study of the "Victory or Death" letter by Travis. If you are teaching about the Alamo at all, that is required reading.

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n11pilot
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Re: Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

Post by n11pilot » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:49 pm

There is a movement afoot to revise or alter and in some cases erase History. History isn't always pretty or comfortable or even complete but with all of its flaws it is the "Story of us" and should be viewed in that light. When someone wants to revise the history of an event some basic questions should be asked. Is this change based on new information or is it based on a desire to become correct to another agenda that has nothing to do with facts? Today we live in a culture that seeks to erase some of the past and to control the rest with an eye to also controlling the narrative of the present and therefore control the outcome of the future. This isn't History this is something that has been used in the past by individuals with an ideological ax to grind. Look at the Stalin era photos that contain the famous "Disappearing commissars" for an example.

Now when you look at the Texas revolution its history isn't as simple as John Wayne move or as damning as a Michael Moor film. The truth lies somewhere in between. When you in turn look at the pivotal story of the Alamo there are some facts that cannot be changed on a PC whim. 1. Based on observances of behavior and other evidence in the historical record from multiple sources, Mexican leader Santa Anna was at best an unhinged megalomaniac and at worst a tyrant in training. 2. The Americans who went to Texas were by and large invited into Texas under an agreement with the Mexican central government. Advantages were taken illegally by both sides but ultimately it was the erosion of this codified agreement that led to armed conflict. 3. During the revolution a force numbering no less that 185 and no more than 260 comprised of white and Hispanic Texians and augmented by American volunteers fortified an old Spanish mission near the town of San Antonio. Santa Anna turned his force numbering no less than 1,800 and no more than 2,300 toward this installation. On 23 FEB 1836 the superior Mexican force laid siege to the fortified mission. The siege lasted thirteen days and the end result was a near massacre of the defenders and a loss of some 600 Mexican soldiers. The greater result was that a largely untrained force in an unsuitable defensive position tied up a superior force for thirteen days buying the larger Texian Army time to train and prepare. The massacre of the surviving defenders also provided an emotional boost to the Texas Revolution that in the end was much more damaging to Santa Anna than the initial loss of 600 troops. Motivations and agendas aside that is a heroic defense by anyone's definition.
Blackthorn wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 pm
Yes, they should. But I"m biased. I had an ancestor there for that fight.
I knew you were descended from strong stock, my friend.
Last edited by n11pilot on Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blackthorn
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Re: Should schoolchildren be taught that Alamo defenders were heroes?

Post by Blackthorn » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:30 pm

n11pilot wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:49 pm
There is a movement afoot to revise or alter and in some cases erase History. History isn't always pretty or comfortable or even complete but with all of its flaws it is the "Story of us" and should be viewed in that light. When someone wants to revise the history of an event some basic questions should be asked. Is this change based on new information or is it based on a desire to become correct to another agenda that has nothing to do with facts? Today we live in a culture that seeks to erase some of the past and to control the rest with an eye to also controlling the narrative of the present and therefore control the outcome of the future. This isn't History this is something that has been used in the past by individuals with an ideological ax to grind. Look at he Stalin era photos that contain the famous "Disappearing commissars" for an example.

Now when you look at the Texas revolution its history isn't as simple as John Wayne move or an damning as a Michael Moor film. The truth lies somewhere in between. When you in turn look at the pivotal story of the Alamo there are some facts that cannot be changed on a PC whim. 1. Based on observances of behavior and other evidence in the historical record from multiple sources, Mexican leader Santa Anna was at best an unhinged megalomaniac and at worst a tyrant in training. 2. The Americans who went to Texas were by and large invited into Texas under an agreement with the Mexican central government. Advantages were taken illegally by both sides but ultimately it was the erosion of this codified agreement that led to armed conflict. 3. During the revolution a force numbering no less that 185 and no more than 260 comprised of white and Hispanic Texians and augmented by American volunteers fortified an old Spanish mission near the town of San Antonio. Santa Anna turned his force numbering no less than 1,800 and no more than 2,300 toward this installation. On 23 FEB 1836 the superior Mexican force laid siege to the fortified mission. The siege lasted thirteen days and the end result was a near massacre of the defenders and a loss of some 600 Mexican soldiers. The greater result was that a largely untrained force in an unsuitable defensive position tied up a superior force for thirteen days buying the larger Texian Army time to train and prepare. The massacre of the surviving defenders also provided an emotional boost to the Texas Revolution that in the end was much more damaging to Santa Anna than the initial loss of 600 troops. Motivations and agendas aside that is a heroic defense by anyone's definition.
I agree on all points, well said, Pilot.
Blackthorn wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 pm
Yes, they should. But I"m biased. I had an ancestor there for that fight.
I knew you were descended from strong stock, my friend.
Thank you, my friend. I do hope the acorn hasn't fallen too far from the tree. :)
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything….Albert Einstein

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